If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. - Galoppin (most sales were in the 1930s). It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. OldGuns Newsletter . Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some Some older foreign Courard Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Due to the Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Bernimolin Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. Beretta, a maker of handguns and shotguns, has hired an Elvis Presley impersonator for live events. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. Comblain Hubert Joseph These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. Coquilhat Aim Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? Dallas, Donald. Clment Walter Bauduin Charles I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Bovy Thodore Joseph If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Email: Info@hlebooks.com The Baby Browning in . I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. Bernard Lambert Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! By Alain Daubresse. Ancion DD & Fils Sorry! We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof Serial Numbers. The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Bodson TH. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). Designates rifled barrel. Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). The Belgian gun industry in Liege produced flintlock muskets for their African colonies until the mid-1950s. 1870-1898. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? Don't know about the Star P. And I don't ever evaluate guns. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. Pictures would help! In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, Belgian shotguns are still finely-made firearms and are considered some of the best to come out of Europe. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. IMPORTANT NOTE! A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Board Of country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and Ancion Marx Baron Emile Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Debouxthay was a gunmaker in Liege, Belgium, active at least from 1888-1904. "Any maker's name or place of origin? Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). Bernard Henri Eugne These firearms The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Colot It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. The rifle requirements were developed through a process of lengthy trials and included, most notably, the box magazine that could be loaded by stripper clip or by. Christophe & Montigny barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). 1860-1870. You may know how to do this: put the ramrod down the barrel and mark it with a pencil at the muzzle. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. JavaScript is disabled. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. Miscellaneous Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. Broqua & Scholberg It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. Bookmark If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Beuret Frres Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Any ideas as to date range? it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber 1840-1860. Bazin F.J. Marlin-Savage-Winchester Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Beckers G. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. stream My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). The blue is rough but the action works. The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. The numbers 138 G(looks like a 1) are under the proof mark. this book online and pay it through Paypal. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. It's complete. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Stevans): cant verify it is Maj. Doan, but on his hip is a pistol, which looks alike a 7 in. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. What does 12 over C mean in a triangle?